Curse

Creston · Jun 09, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

This is a bit of a repost from something I posted on page xxx in a long thread, and I wanted to try to get it out in the open a bit more. Apologies if by doing so I'm breaking forum rules.

I would definitely like for arenanet to make this a better game, and see if maybe I can contribute some ideas.

First of, I'm still a bit surprised at the forced connection this game makes between PvP and PvE.

How many hardcore PvPers (I'm talking about all you guys who I keep seeing in the HoH and the top of the ladders), really ENJOY the PvE part, especially the whole unlocking part?
From what I understand, most farmers actually farm just to unlock their skills and items that they can use in PvP, right? (Which begs the question why every item and skill isn't simply unlocked FOR PVP only, but that apparently is something that's already been going on for a long time. This would be the only way to guarantee a completely FAIR fight between the two sides?)

Similarly, how many strongly PvE focussed players do a lot of PvP? I know that there are people that do both, and enjoy both, but most often you change your builds between PvP and PvE, right? (If I'm wrong, let me know

).

So it seems a bit strange that there is such a connection.

Now, I know no PvPers like the skill point system, where you need 21K xp and beyond for a single skill point so you can unlock another skill, so why not tie this in with your actual performance IN PVP?

There is a rank system, and a fame system, both of which go up as soon as you've scored a certain amount of victories, right?
So why not tie the skill unlocking, and item unlocking and rune unlocking in with that?
You gain 1 rank or 100 fame (I don't know how hard it is to gain either, so these numbers are mere examples), and you are given a list of items/skills/runes to "unlock" so you can use them in your next battles. If you tie this in with a system that matches up groups based on rank / fame (give or take a few levels), this would guarantee that you get reasonably fair matches, since at most you'll be fighting against people who have, say, 10 more or 10 less items/skills/runes etc.

Then, once you reach fame 500 / rank 5, or something, you can start unlocking better skills, elite skills, better items, major runes etc. Similarly for 1000 / 10, you could unlock all items etc.

In my opinion, this would be of benefit in several ways.

1) You can immediately start fighting against people with a comparable level of skill.
2) Since you're trying to win anyways, there is no grinding involved. I mean, isn't the whole point of PvP to win as many battles as you can?
3) There is actually a reward system involved now, beyond just seeing arbitrary numbers go up. I mean, I'm sure it's great that your fame is 3 higher than the next guy, but does it really mean anything beyond just being a higher number? Now, if you reach a new rank, you actually get more skills to play with, more powerful stuff to play with, and you go to fight against people with more skill, more rank, etc.

Like I said, the numbers are examples. I'm sure that the PvPers would be far more suited to figuring out what could happen where, how many skills / items to unlock per level etc.

This would also have the benefit that any changes to the PvP system no longer has to affect (either positively or negatively) the PvE area, which in my opinion is a win / win situation for both sides.

Any CONSTRUCTIVE opinions / criticisms / flaws anyone would care to elaborate?

Creston

DrSLUGFly · Jun 09, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Your post is aimed mostly at PvP, and since I'm one of those who is not both but rather mostly PvE I can't really comment one way or the other except to say that those who aren't part of the solution are part of the problem, and you my friend are trying to be part of the solution.
/clap
One connection between PvP and PvE that I love is the favor of the gods (please no nationalistic tangents or pointless flexing of "intellectual" muscle on the subject of history). I like that while I'm PvEing there are people fighting on my behalf (even if they don't see it that way) and influencing my in game options. Good job heroes. I wish there were more influences though and that it went both ways. The PvE community gives nothing to PvP... this makes me sad, I want to contribute in some way.

DarrenJasper · Jun 09, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

This has been suggested before. I agreed with it then, and I agree with it now. If you make it so I don't have to, I will never bother with PvE again.

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

this game was geared towards two totally different styles of play. If I want PvP i'm going to play a game that excels at it....Counter Strike or Unreal. I play guild wars for PvE. Not everyone does. Others play it for PvP.....this game, in it's current state doesn't work for both PvE and PvP....and I tend to believe that it never will. It is evolving into a PvP only game...I don't see any point in playing this game PvP or ever playing it again once I finish it. I know that there is a large community of PvP players that love the PvP aspect.....But for I know I do feel as though ArenaNet used the RPG aspect of this game to sucker RPG players into buying it.....and never intended on supporting the RPG community. With every patch the game gets easier for PvP players....and more and more mundane for PvE players.

Creston · Jun 09, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

This has been suggested before. I agreed with it then, and I agree with it now. If you make it so I don't have to, I will never bother with PvE again.

See, now we're getting somewhere. I didn't know this was suggested before, I'm pretty new to this board. So why is GW FORCING you to do PvE? This makes absolutely NO SENSE to me whatsoever. If someone buys Half Life 2, strictly for the deathmatch, Valve is not forcing him to play through the single player first.

GW is the very first game that I know of (and I've been playing since PONG), that FORCES you to do one side, before it will let you really enjoy the other side. So if there is no Unlock All Skills option, why not tie the actual slow unlocking into the part that you specifically LIKE doing.

I'd like to know what more PvP'ers feel about this though?

Like I said, I don't particularly enjoy the PvP in GW. It seems too slow and boring for me to really get into it. A lot of people call it skill, I call it sitting there and pressing 4, and watching the game auto target my spell onto the opposing player's toon and do damage. I would much rather play BF2, since that actually requires skill over just strategic thinking, but this in no way takes away the fact that I respect the PvPers, and if they enjoy that part of the game, then they should be ALLOWED to enjoy it the way they want to.
As for the PvE, I like PvE roleplaying games. I like guild wars' PvE. I liked Diablo 2's PvE.
I do NOT like the PvE continuously being changed and rebalanced in an effort to alter the game's PvP portion. The two should be separated.

Btw, yes, I do like the favor of the Gods part too, because it's also an incentive to you to actually go out and get that favor back if the Koreans are holding it again

(although it seems that, right now, it's way too time dependant, ie, when the top guilds log on from each area, and since they're 12 hours away, the top korean and top US guilds hardly face each other? Just speculating.)

Creston